BARELY SHIPPING Season 1 · Episode 03

There Are No Low-Level Tasks

A team of three opened $100M in channel pipeline. Brian Sowards on pointing AI at the expensive, high-judgment work that actually moves revenue, and why there are no low-level tasks.

Published May 20, 2026 Runtime 37 min Host Nathan Thompson Guest Brian Sowards · Go-to-market engineer · sowards.ai
▶ Watch on YouTube
Barely Shipping · E03
Listen: YouTube

Brian Sowards told me that a team of three opened $100 million in channel-source pipeline, and my honest first reaction was that it had to be a typo. It wasn’t. Brian is a go-to-market engineer (his words, and the right ones) who builds agentic GTM systems for operators inside fast-moving organizations, and that number is the kind of thing that either breaks your model of what’s possible or confirms everything you already believed about lean teams and AI. For me it was the second one.

Most people hear a number like that and assume the AI was off in the corner doing the boring work, freeing up the humans for the important stuff. Brian’s actual point is the opposite of that, and it’s the most useful reframe I’ve heard all year.

“I don’t know anyone in marketing whose biggest problem right now is how do I publish fifty blogs I’ve already written. There are no low-level tasks. The power of AI is leveling up the quality of what you do and the speed at which you do it.”

That single shift changes where you point AI in your business, and almost everyone is pointing it in the wrong place.

The work AI should be doing is the expensive work

When teams first got access to real AI, they went looking for the cheapest, most repetitive tasks to knock off the list. Brian’s early work with Aviatrix proved how badly that instinct undersells what’s actually available.

Aviatrix sells multi-cloud orchestration into the cybersecurity space, which is about as complex as B2B sales gets. The buying process runs through multiple heroes (the senior AE who can build the business case with the C-suite, the technical SAs and SEs, the forward-deployed engineers whose time has to be protected because they’re carrying a virtual pager everywhere they go). Marketing sits in the middle of three completely different motions trying to figure out how to help. This is not a “publish fifty blogs” environment. It’s the kind of problem most people assumed AI couldn’t touch.

What AI unlocked there wasn’t low-value at all. It was taking the dense technical documentation the engineers wrote for support issues, the stuff that captured the exact reasons a company would actually buy, and turning it into high-performing content. Then they paired that with an organized LinkedIn motion and a partner and client roadshow built around AWS re:Invent. The result was an 80% reduction in marketing effort and $10 million in net-new pipeline opened in a single month. None of that was grunt work getting automated. It was expensive, high-judgment work that had simply been too hard to do at scale before.

“Get organized. That’s what the challenge is. Everyone who’s been in this business knows that meeting people and having a roundtable and building relationships works, and it’s a nightmare to organize.”

That’s the real gap, and it’s why Brian describes agentic operations as a bit of a Trojan horse. You’re bringing AI into the organization, but what the AI is actually executing is the stuff the people doing the job already know matters. The relationships, the roadshows, the personalized outreach. The work that’s always been valuable and always been a logistical nightmare to run consistently.

The most important work in your business has no software

The Moxie Power story is where this really lands. Moxie was replacing diesel generators with smart battery systems, selling into a channel-driven, relationship-heavy world where you don’t just win the partner, you have to win their salespeople, and then those salespeople have to actually succeed at selling you. Brian called it a good-old-boy network where the person who sold you the equipment is the person you call when something breaks. You don’t out-spreadsheet that. You earn your way in.

So a team of three did the only thing that scales in that environment without losing the human core of it.

“We just agentically enabled them to communicate with the entire distribution network, but to do it in a way that set up relationship building. Hey, we’re going to be at the same conference. Let’s get together.”

That is $100 million in pipeline built on top of relationships, not in place of them. And it points at something I’ve been saying for a while from a different angle, which Brian put more bluntly than I ever have:

“Take the most important thing in the business, there isn’t software for it. There has never been a company that I didn’t drop Claude Code or Codex into that didn’t 5X the amount of software they wanted overnight, and all of it was stuff they couldn’t buy that was endemic to the value chain.”

This is the anti-SaaS thesis stated by an operator who’s lived it. The era of buying fifteen tools and duct-taping them together is ending, not because the tools are bad, but because the work that actually moves your pipeline is specific to you, and nobody is going to sell you software for it. You build it. The $60k stack becomes a $3k stack plus a system shaped exactly like your business.

Where to point this in your own org

If you want to find the work AI should actually be doing for your team, three questions get you there faster than any list of tasks to automate.

Stop making a list of cheap tasks to automate

The “what can we knock off our plate” exercise caps your ceiling at incremental. You’ll get a faster version of the same work and call it transformation. Start instead from the work that drives revenue and ask why you aren’t doing more of it. The answer is almost always that it’s too hard to organize, which is exactly the constraint a system removes.

Look for the work that’s too expensive to do, not too cheap

The highest-value motions in most companies (personalized channel activation, turning real technical expertise into content, running a genuine relationship motion across a whole partner network) don’t get done because they don’t scale with human hours. That’s the work to point AI at. Not because AI replaces the judgment, but because it removes the logistical tax that kept you from doing it at all.

Build the thing nobody will sell you

Audit the most important process in your business and check whether software exists for it. If it’s truly core to how you win, it probably doesn’t, because it’s specific to you. That’s not a gap in the market. That’s your moat, and it’s now buildable in an afternoon with Claude Code instead of a six-month vendor evaluation.

The honest part

I’m not going to tell you this hands everyone their evenings back, because the most honest thing Brian said all episode was that it doesn’t. He works more now that he has AI agents than he did before, and so does nearly every leader he talks to. The leverage is real, but we’re in the middle of a transformation, and transformations don’t fit neatly into nine Zoom meetings and a tidy schedule. The people getting these results are doing it in the early mornings and late nights, and pretending otherwise would be the exact AI-hype dishonesty I started this podcast to avoid.

What I’ll stand behind is the shape of the opportunity. The systems Brian builds, the client walks away owning. A personal, proprietary AI tech stack, not a dependency on his GitHub repo. That’s the same principle underneath everything I believe about this work: your lived experience and your internal data are the only real moat left, and a system built around them compounds in a way no off-the-shelf tool ever will. Small teams get things done. A team of three just opened $100 million in pipeline to prove it. The only question worth asking now is whether the most important work in your business is getting AI’s attention, or whether you’re still using it to publish blogs you already wrote.


This was my conversation with Brian Sowards on Barely Shipping. The full episode is on YouTube, and you can find Brian at sowards.ai. The free book this thinking is built on, Pipes Before Chocolate, is here.

Frequently asked

// These power the FAQ schema — questions and answers stay in sync
How did a team of three open $100M in channel pipeline?
By agentically enabling a small team to run a relationship motion across an entire distribution network — personalized outreach that set up real relationship-building (shared conferences, roadshows), not automation in place of relationships. AI removed the logistical tax on high-value work that doesn't scale with human hours.
Should I point AI at my cheapest, most repetitive tasks?
No. Automating cheap tasks caps you at incremental gains everyone else also gets. Point AI at the expensive, high-judgment work that drives revenue but is too hard to organize at scale: channel activation, turning real technical expertise into content, and running a genuine relationship motion across partners.
What is the 'anti-SaaS' thesis?
The most important work in your business is specific to you, so no vendor will sell you software for it. With tools like Claude Code you build it yourself — the $60k stack becomes a $3k stack plus a system shaped exactly like your business. That custom system, built on your data and expertise, is the moat.
Does building with AI mean less work and more free time?
Honestly, no. Many leaders work more during this transformation, not less. The leverage is real, but the results come from finally doing high-value work that was impossible to organize before — not from automating your evenings back.
Full transcript click to expand

Nathan: . Well, okay. This is the

Brian: to

Nathan: third episode. Yeah. With, uh,

Brian: it.

Nathan: with Brian Swords. And, uh, Brian, you have done some really cool things. We're gonna talk about it. One of the biggest things though is you've helped a team, at least that we were chatting about, a team of three open 100 million in Channel Source pipeline.

Uh, which when I read, I was like, "This is either a typo or proof that everything we've chatted about in the past is accurate and spot on with AI and lean teams." And I'm hoping it's the latter. Am I reading that right? 100 million in Channel Source pipeline. Okay. Uh, then I'm excited to chat today. Um, before we even start though, I wanted to give you the chance, 60 seconds open pitch.

This is not the time to be humble, just flex away on us.

Brian: All right. Well, my dream is to be the go-to-market engineer to really brilliant rising stars within organizations, and I'm really fortunate to have a few amazing friends I do that for. Um, basically, the idea is if you're taking on a new area within growth, it's [00:01:00] chaos right now across the full stack, and everybody is working really hard to, um, keep the-- keep things moving forward, get context, figure out what's going on, set the direction, make it happen. You know, it's just leadership has never been as chaotic and challenging as it is today. And, um, I get to be your personal, uh, AI engineer behind you, taking initiatives and making them happen, but making them happen with loops and skills and harnesses and all the really cool stuff that OpenClaw and, and those other types of tools are based around. And the beauty of that is that when you solve problems agentically, it becomes... Well, my goal is to make you your secret weapon for how you build an agentic go-to-market organization

Nathan: Really like that. Make you your secret weapon. I really like that a lot.

Brian: Yeah

Nathan: and we've chatted, uh, we have chatted a bunch in the past [00:02:00] about GTM engineering. You've now been putting this into practice, though. One of the ones with, was with Aviatrix.

Brian: That's right

Nathan: if I'm reading this right, it was an 80% reduction in marketing effort while deliv- delivering 10 million in net new pipeline.

We're gonna talk about the 10X version of the 100 million pipeline in a second, but Aviatrix, walk me through what their GTM looked like before you touched it, and then what you came in as a GTM engineer and did to it.

Brian: I think, you know, I'm really grateful to Aviatrix because they bet on us really early. I mean, this is like a month after GPT 3.5 came out, right? And everyone realized that AI workflows and automations was a thing, and they decided to be at the forefront of it. But this was a pure zero to one effort. There was nothing agentic in the organization before we came in. And I think there's two things about them as a early client, um, and they, you know, great to have a case study with them on Forbes and so on about the impact that we had. there were two things [00:03:00] about them that I think turned out to be prophetic. One, early on, everyone looked at AI as a way of getting low-level tasks knocked off the list. I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone in marketing whose biggest problem right now is how do I publish fifty blogs I've already written?

Nathan: Yeah. Yeah

Brian: There are no low-level tasks. The power of AI is leveling up the quality of what you do and the speed at which you do it. And Aviatrix was really where we got to test that theory. And the reason is, and this is the corollary, which I really love, is back then everybody was looking for really simplistic business use cases. Aviatrix is multi-cloud orchestration in the cybersecurity space. is the definition of a very complex sale, and any organization that's gonna install it is gonna have multiple departments, multiple leaders involved. [00:04:00] top customers are the Global 2000. Um, there are names that you hear every day that run and rely on their security infrastructure. um, that means that the sale process had sort of like multiple heroes. Sure, you've got your senior account executive, the guys who've been doing it for 20 years and know how to talk with the C-suite and the leadership level of, you know, various departments intelligently and create that business value case and that stakeholder alignment that's needed to make that happen. Then you've got your SAs, SCs. These are the, you know, pretty technical but still sales aligned almost like your customer success before the customer signs up type team members. And anyone who's an SA, SE, which by the way I used to be at LinkedIn, love that role. It's still one of my favorite place, seats in the, in the organization 'cause you have access to all [00:05:00] of the problems in one lens. Um, but man, it was crazy technical. And then you have your engineers, essentially your forward deployed engineers, and those resources are incredibly valuable and their time has to be protected. And this is a security product so they're all living with a virtual pager on their ass. You know, like they, you know, e- every new client is just one more reason they might not make their kid's soccer game.

So

Nathan: Oh, that's a depressing way to look at it. Oh, man.

Brian: It's true, right? So, you know, if you, if you structure the deal wrong, if you set the expectations wrong, the engineers are gonna have an opinion about it 'cause it directly affects their life. And marketing is in here with three essentially completely different lenses and motions in the sales organization and going, "Okay, how do we help? How do we, how do we drive this forward?" And, [00:06:00] um, I mean you, you know this really well. Copy.ai was one of the, the groups that we brought in, so OG Copy.ai client right there. Um, you know, your, your team was transformational for us actually in bringing AI workflows, um, to the game. You know, the nice thing about the early days of AI transformation is, wow, there was just a lot of low-hanging fruit. And in marketing's case, it was taking very technical documentations that engineers wrote for support issues and turning that into content because those issues were the reasons why someone would buy. Um, and it just like, was just so powerful. I mean, we-- they, they essentially began to ship really high-performing content very quickly. We were able to then pair that with a organized LinkedIn effort. You know, it's amazing. I've been doing LinkedIn automation for like [00:07:00] fifteen years now, and the rules of the game haven't changed at all. Like, if you're gonna reach out to people, do it to build a relationship. If you're gonna connect with them and put text in front of them, make it something that contributes to their network or their knowledge, you know, as a gift of some kind.

You know, there's just, there's so many basics that still matter even in this... I mean, the Link-- gotta hand it to the LinkedIn team. They have fought off the AI bots hard over the last five years. They've worked very hard to preserve some integrity in that, you know, whole sort of DM social network infrastructure that they've built. And we just showed the sales team how to use it, um, properly, and we took out the, you know, fifteen clicks it takes to do a thing and put that energy into how they would behave if they were with that person at a conference event.

Nathan: Oh, that's a great way to look at it

Brian: and, and we [00:08:00] overlaid that with a, um, partner roadshow motion and a client roadshow motion with AWS re:Invent, and they opened ten million in pipeline in one month. Um, so you know, like, look, I love you salespeople and marketing people, but we all know what the real challenge is. Get organized. That's what the challenge is. Everyone who's been doing this business, especially if you participate in the SaaS apocalypse, you know what you're doing. You know what works. You know that going and meeting people and spending some time and having a roundtable and doing a dinner and building relationships, like, you know all this stuff works, and it's a nightmare to organize. And unfortunately, I love my rev ops friends, I love my field marketing ops t-friends. I love all of my ops friends. I'm an ops nerd. But, you know, organizations really, really struggle to take what their people know works and make that how they do things. And that's actually why I think there's a huge gap right now [00:09:00] that AI operations can address because it's kind of a little bit of a Trojan horse.

Yeah, we're bringing agentic operations into the organization, but also those agentic operations are based on stuff that, you know, the people actually doing the job knows matters.

Nathan: Yes. Well, and it, I imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, but this only, this problem only gets harder the larger the company is, where it's, it's almost like we were talking to somebody, not to bring up that David and Goliath tired metaphor, but at the same time, I was, I was telling my brother, excuse me, he's opened a coffee shop last year, and I said, "You could move so much faster than Starbucks because you have no red tape.

You've got a team of like eight people, and you can actually build and put stuff in and make your whole systems run on AI and a loyalty program and all this stuff." And at SaaS companies, there are startups where it's like I work with an enterprise, I'm not allowed to say who those clients are, but work with a large, large enterprise, and they just are like,

Brian: Po- Copilot, man.

Nathan: "Yeah,

Brian: feel you.

Nathan: we've got this and we've got, you know, we don't know what this region's doing, and so we [00:10:00] can't get together."

Then you have these teams of like 25 people and they're like, "Oh no, we just built up a process. We codified it with AI, and now that process is taken care of. We're good. Check, move on." And it's incredible. Um, and so speaking of the smaller teams, let's talk about how do I-- I'm probably gonna say this wrong.

Moxie in Power?

Brian: Moxie Power.

Nathan: I nailed it

Brian: was a YC startup, unfortunately did not make it to the promised land, but I mean, like one of the really world-changing ideas that I got to work on. Still a absolute huge fan of this, and they've gone on to have a second life, which is really cool. But what Moxie Power was doing is replacing diesel generators, mobile power, with batteries,

Nathan: Oh,

Brian: batteries

Nathan: that's cool

Brian: So if you go to Burning Man or Coachella, my friend runs their, their power systems at

Nathan: Great

Brian: Th- she's-- she installed these systems, and they're still using them today, and there's just [00:11:00] so many benefits. Smart power distribution cuts down. I mean, we're talking like forty to sixty percent reduction in fuel expenses. And when you're talking about large scale, you know, in-person events of a military or non-military nature, um, the military applications was actually one of the largest. You know, most people don't know this, but like US military is by far the largest contributor to climate, uh, you know, uh, climate issues, uh,

Nathan: It just surprised me

Brian: entities.

You know, like they just burn so much fuel. Um, and, uh, you know, mobile electric power, especially as UAVs becomes more and more important, is, is incredibly valuable, so they're working on a really big problem. The issue is, is that There wasn't really... You know, I, I think, I think this is true of most great ideas. The, the, the ideas where you make a thing [00:12:00] that's better and then you offer it to a person who needs it, that very linear go-to-market motion, has been gobbled up. That, you know, that is owned by somebody somewhere in every industry, in every product category. Almost all of the really interesting transformation happens in environment where it's really not that linear, where partners, distributors, you know, there's some sort of ecosystem play. And if you've been in the partner world, you know, man, that is a slog because you not only have to win the partner, you have to go get their sales teams to actually wanna sell you, and then they actually have to be successful in selling you. And that was Moxie Empower's challenge. They had won the relationships of the biggest distributors in their industry.

They had won all the channels. But how do you activate it? you get in front of the people who, yeah, their boss's boss's boss is really excited about Moxie Empower. They've [00:13:00] never even heard of it. They don't know why they would use it, and it kinda sounds like it's replacing the bread and butter they make money on every day. And it's a, you know, it's a good old boy network, right? It's just, it's people went to, to high school together. They went to college together. It's a very old school kind of sales network approach where ultimately, like train is there and the key is, is that you've got a friend who sold you whatever equipment you got because if you have a problem, you're calling that salesperson, you're not calling corporate, right?

It's, it's sort of that classic, my buddy's gonna make sure I'm okay if something really needs t-to be addressed. And so I, I think that there's a lot of that left in the economy right now. I mean, there's so much buzz around AI going into, you know, small businesses like recruiting or trucking or insurance, and these are all categories I've worked in. And I'd say that the most common thing that I see is that these are all relationship-driven businesses. The people who are actually [00:14:00] successful, the people who are in the top ten percent or above in terms of performance You know, a lot of them are like second or third generation business owners. They're not, they're not the first wave. So the relationships are huge, and then they discover Claude Code, they discover Codex, and, you know, nobody really has ever cared to make them software that works the way the b- their business works. they can do it for themselves, they are. So to bring this back to, you know, Moxie and Power and 100 million, uh, in channel, you know, pipeline that got opened, basically just took, you know, some really ambitious startup great individuals, and we just agentically enabled them to communicate with the entire distribution network. But to do it in a way that set up relationship building. "Hey, we're gonna be at the same conference you're gonna be at. Let's get together."

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: " Hey, we just saw that you launched this new, uh, you know, this new service offering or this new [00:15:00] piece. We think there's a story here where you could offer, you know, this, this green alternative in the mix," 'cause that was sort of their, their key story is it didn't have to be full replacement.

You could connect a smart battery to existing infra. you know, these kinds of challenges, they don't go away. Um, I'm on a little bit of a tear here, but I wanted to drop this on your podcast. Literally just hit me yesterday. So you've probably seen this. The number of apps that have been published to the App Store

Nathan: Oh yeah

Brian: per month has

Nathan: It's unreal

Brian: last year, and it's just going like this.

Nathan: What's on ring?

Brian: revenue hasn't moved at all,

Nathan: I believe it

Brian: means that there are thousands of apps being born a minute that don't ever make a dollar,

Nathan: I make half of them. Yeah. I'm not making it.

Brian: Exactly.

Nathan: keep launching them. Nothing's happening. No, I, it's true though. The, I heard... I shouldn't say this. I heard of a really [00:16:00] clever company that did something with Shopify apps, and what they, they did was they looked for categories with the lowest review possible for a problem that wasn't solved well enough yet, and they're doing very well in that way.

Brian: yeah.

Nathan: Oh, but you just, everyone

Brian: Gart- Gartner, G2, Spotify, I mean, like, go, go to, uh, go, go to any marketplace and look at reviews, and you basically have open season. The interesting thing I found is that a lot of people feel like because there's a bunch of legacy SaaS out there, that all the industry problems are solved.

And I can tell you, like, there has never been a company that I didn't drop Claude Code or Codex into who didn't 5X the amount of software that they wanted overnight, and all of it was stuff that they couldn't buy that was endemic to the value chain. Like, take the most important thing in the business, there isn't software for it. So I think [00:17:00] that we are looking at a bifurcation in the software world of it's never been easier to create it, but also, like, you don't really need to buy it from someone anymore. You need to make it for yourself. And this brings us back to our much maligned and abused discipline. Because if there's any discipline that's been socked in the face for the last five years with AI, it's marketing,

Nathan: Yeah. Oh, God. Yes

Brian: Always been first to fire, always been first to blame You know? Like, I mean, like, marketing has been the, you know, the punching bag of GTM for a long time, and

Nathan: Oh, yeah

Brian: and it still is. But there's something really more fundamental to marketing than even the discipline as we know it today in technology, which is this: marketing is just people's attention And it turns out that there is an extreme escalating pressure right now because the [00:18:00] attention of people who spend money continues to be... You know, there, there's only so many more hours we can get people to spend on Instagram. So it, it, it's basically functionally finite,

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: defaults win. You know, so the whole concept of, like, brand and all these things are s-- they're still holding all this weight. But I really do see that when I look as my own experience as an AE and an SE and then as a sales leader and a founder and now building, marketers know this, and I think it's, it's amazing.

I think one of the great things that has happened pre-AI is marketing shifted in a very operations-focused

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: side. Now we gotta be hybrid. You know, we gotta have both the aesthetic and, you know, the amazing shirt that you're wearing and the style and all that good stuff. We gotta be able to combine that with an operations mindset, and AI really does make that possible.

My prediction is that by twenty twenty-eight [00:19:00] almost all design will be done by AI, and I think the design problem will be basically solved in... Yeah, I mean, just dropped. Ah. So we have Claude Fable Mythos now. Um, but I think design is the next frontier to fall, and, um, marketers are in the premium position to, to make use of that. So expectation is that go-to-market engineering is gonna continue to not only be very relevant, but it's gonna continue to be one of those things where making sense of what the organization does or doesn't know,

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: data problem that everybody's got when it comes to working with AI. Solving those problems, marketing is in such a unique cross-functional role deliver operational methodologies that are delivering emotion that is designed to connect with real people

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: successful in building real [00:20:00] relationships

Nathan: I always thought it was weird that, like you said, marketing's the first to fire, the first to get blamed, all these things. When at, at Copy, when we were kind of mapping out go-to-market functions, the, the center point that branched off to everything was marketing because every customer communication, every prospect communication, every just organic piece of traffic that you would get had to go under the brand voice.

It had to identify the audience and have the ICP really well-defined. It had to understand not only what the product did, but the benefits of that product and the headaches that it took away. And all of those little nuggets of everything that GTM uses in every department, sales, customer success, anything, all originated in marketing.

And I found it weird. I don't know if, if you felt this way. I feel like in 2023, so not that long ago, but three years ago, there were so many marketers that were the most anti-AI. Like sales were just like, "We just wanna make money. Like that's-- We'll use whatever [00:21:00] tool we can. We'll just make more money." And marketers were like, "No, don't take away the soul of everything."

Brian: Mm-hmm.

Nathan: And now I see those same marketers like, "Buy my 15 prompts on X, Y, and Z." And it's like they act like, you know, they, they came late to the party, but they pretend like they were there to set up the chairs, and it's really been frustrating me lately on LinkedIn. So I feel like they were the last to adopt, but now they're in the best position 'cause like you said, they can really operationalize everything to make go-to-market go smoother and be the first to get the praise and to be the first to r- make the pipeline and to be all these different things.

So that's my small podium box. I get so mad at that. Uh

Brian: I think it's a f- I think it's a fair podium box, and I wanna call myself out on this one, right? Like, I built my first AI-powered chat app in 2014 using TensorFlow and Google NLP, right? So pre-gen AI, and we still were able to do some pretty cool stuff. I mean, we're working with middle school students, so it's a tough audience and

Nathan: Yeah, no kidding

Brian: We succeeded. We got-- we-- 80%, [00:22:00] um, increase in student engagement and performance,

Nathan: Matt

Brian: with neurodivergent kids, so it was really fun.

Nathan: Well, that's cool

Brian: Um, and it taught me a really important lesson that I think is that now is a daily thing. It's almost hourly thing, which is I don't care that I was early. It doesn't matter. The

Nathan: Fantastic

Brian: the model power is dropping at such a step change, the harness, you know, that, that Claude Code, Claude Cowork, Codex, they really gotta come up with a better name for it, but, you know. Codex, Codex is really... The Codex desktop app is truly the everything app. Like, if you just want your-- if you just want a computer to-- an assistant to just handle things for you, the Codex desktop app is amazing. And the power that's being added to it every, you know, every couple days now, let's just be real, is so-- [00:23:00] it's, it's so useful.

It's, it's such a, it's such a change mentally in how you think about your own value in life.

Nathan: Yep

Brian: know, there's, there's such an existential element. You kinda get, gotta get through an identity transformation. and, and all of those things are relevant. So, you know, I've, I have friends who picked up Claude Code a few months ago and me,

Nathan: Yeah. Just killing it

Brian: because I was still trying to build RAG.

I was still trying to build, you know, systems to make sure the AI did the job right, and they were just YOLOing it and being like, "Hey, can you make this thing?" And then it was. and we're all living in that, you know, balance of like infrastructure, vibe coding, back and forth, back and forth, and the game keeps changing.

So I guess what I would say is, look, I, mean, you and I called it, right? We're living in Hunger Games now in tech.

Nathan: You called it. I love that expression. I'm not gonna take any credit for that, but you

Brian: Fair

Nathan: it. You said that. That was great

Brian: fair enough. We're all living in Hunger Games. Um, I- and I [00:24:00] honestly, I don't think organization size matters that much because if you're in a huge organization, it's all tiny teams, right?

Nathan: Yeah.

Brian: h- the whole headcount game has been changed, which I think is wonderful and not great for people's lives, but small teams get things done. And so the, the fact that, you know, we're designing around small teams is a good thing. But I've been shocked to see, you know, companies selling agentic solutions in the go-to-market space, not dogfooding agents in terms of how they build their own operations. And that's been true of like seed and Series A startups out of Y Combinator, as much as it's true of like the really big Global 2000 organizations that I work in. I-- there's different challenges for sure. For sure. But when it comes to like if you have the local context in your organization where you're allowed to use agents you've been tasked with [00:25:00] figuring something out, building some kind of a zero to one thing, which exists everywhere now, then you're in the prime seat for learning and producing and career advancement

Nathan: Yeah, I do love that. I wanna touch because we're coming up on time. We got about five minutes left. I wanna touch on three things that you said you're seeing everywhere, and this is just way off topic of anything that we chatted about,

Brian: Great

Nathan: in the, in the questions that I, I prepped for this. So we're just going off because we chatted right before the show on three things that you're seeing everywhere.

And dare I use the word scoffed, but you slightly scoffed at the term 996, not because it's a ridiculous concept, but because it's actually underestimating how much teams are actually working. And I wanted to chat with you just about what you're seeing right now in SaaS, um, in terms of, of culture, um, the discrepancies between leadership and the people in the trenches actually building these things.

What, what were [00:26:00] those three things that you're seeing?

Brian: So I think, you know, and I, I think it's just really important to, like, dial up our empathy for a moment here, um, for ourselves and for each other. It-- we certainly are all living a really great life to get to work in tech.

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: tech has been an amazing swimming pool, uh, for people. Um, and, you know, it's, it's feeling a lot less friendly right now. I, I think the story that's not as often being told, and what I'm seeing, is this: Every head of VP director that I'm seeing, they are completely overwhelmed, and they're working 12 hours a day.

Nathan: Yeah. Yeah

Brian: I, I think nine-nine-six is underselling it. Um, I think people are terrified. They're-- they never have a sense that they've done enough.

They don't know what enough is, and no one is willing to give them any feedback to what enough is. No one really wants to be on the hook for [00:27:00] saying, "This is the bar. You made it." Um, and so I, I do think that, you know, pe- a lot of people have mentioned this. I know it's been true for me. I work more now that I have AI agents than when I didn't. So,

Nathan: true

Brian: you know, there, there is, there is a real f-factor here that, you know, we're, we're going through a transformation, and a transformation is not something you coast on. It's not something that fits into a nice schedule. It's not something you get done in your nine Zoom meetings of the day. You know, it's the things you do in the early morning and late at night and on the weekends, and everybody's doing it. Um, and so this was what partly inspired me to, to launch Soards AI and to be the behind the, behind-the-scenes AI engineer that helps these individuals because they just can't keep up with it. And they're smart. These are people... You know, I'm talking about people who can code. I'm talking about people who can use these tools and, [00:28:00] and use them every day.

They just can't keep up. So I think one is everyone's just working so many hours. Um, there's very much an always-on global culture now. You, you know, that Slack message is gonna hit you literally at any point, uh, in the twenty-four-hour cycle, and you gotta figure out how to cope with that. That's one. the second, and this is, I, I think the more profound thing.

People have talked about this, and I think it's true. What if everyone in your company, including the C-suite, the board, the investors, the VP, and directors, what if everyone is kind of at a loss right now for, like, what is the context? What are we up to? What are we trying to accomplish? What's important right now? What, w-what direction should I be betting in in terms of the direction of the organization? Because it's so chaotic that, um... and, and everyone's going to AI and asking.

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: everyone's asking the AI to help them understand, like, what, what is my context? How should I be entering [00:29:00] this? I've actually found the people who are completely and overtly self-interested to be the healthiest in this context. Like, does it advance my career? Does it help me? You know, especially salespeople, right? Like, am I gonna close a deal out of this? No? Next. Um, they actually have, you know, some, some blinders on that can give them clarity. But if you're in a cross-functional role, phew, it is a confusing time to know what's mine, what's yours, what's important, what am I gonna be measured on? And I don't think that clarity is coming. think that people Coming up with their own model of their context, their, the universe of their job and what they're up to, inventing it and being correct or at least successful is the future of work in tech. It is, it's gonna feel increasingly isolating. Um, and that's, that's what sort of brings me to [00:30:00] the, the third piece, which is I think it's just important to say this, like you are enough. You're doing enough.

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: Everyone is confused. Everyone is overloaded. Everyone is unsure. know, we, we've all grown up, you know, especially the millennials, we've all grown up with the whole social media is the highlight reel everyone's life. Well, now that's everything. Now everyone's trying to create or synthesize a highlight reel, as you pointed out, whatever the truth of it is because, you know, it's, it's a constant, you know, is, is how this looks gonna matter?

Is, is how I look out in the world gonna matter? Are my results gonna matter? I don't think there's a way of knowing the answer to that question. And so I think there's this sort of gestalt of just sort of existential dread. Like, I, I just don't-- you know, everything is a bet right now, and I have no idea if any of them are winning bets.

Nathan: Yeah[00:31:00]

Brian: maybe I do, but my conviction, you know, leads me down a road, and then I get to the destination, and it doesn't look anything like I thought it was gonna look like when I got there, which has happened, I think, to all of us who've delivered results and then woke up to that not really mattering in terms of our personal career or influence within the organization, which almost everyone I've talked to has experienced at least once in the last two years. So, um, you know, I, I, I think it's important just to say, like, you know, I'm, I'm very fortunate that I get to have this lens into a lot of people's lives and work worlds. I think the most important thing to say about AI is, and, and where we are with it is, yes, it's real. Everyone's trying to figure out how to survive. They're trying to figure out how to be relevant. They're trying to figure out how to have a job, you know, two quarters from now, two days from now. And there isn't an answer. There, there, there really isn't. And so I think that, you know, once you can come to terms with that, then it's, all right, what's [00:32:00] my toolkit? am I gonna approach life? How am I gonna decide what I want? How am I gonna decide what's worthwhile to me to go for? what-- where, where's the mountaintop that I'm gonna chart towards and why I believe it? And then, you know, the good news that I have for everybody is AI still has a lot of gaps in terms of, know, whole organizations. But man, AI personal assistant is here.

Nathan: Yeah

Brian: build an agentic to your work for you, you can be very successful at that very quickly, and it, it stacks. You know, you get more powerful as you make that investment. So I do think there's an answer. I just don't think the answer is in our organization. I think it's in how we handle life ourselves.

Nathan: Oh, that was half uplifting, half depressing, all scary, but really also good to take [00:33:00] away. I like that very much. I mean, it's scary. It's... I'll say it, it's scary.

Brian: time

Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's no answer, but it's also exciting 'cause that means, you know, usually when it's scary 'cause there's a lot of unknowns, that means there's a lot of opportunities that are unknown as well that tend to pop up when you're looking for them, which I think is really interesting.

Um

Brian: its dad, you know what that means. It means it's time to go watch Frozen 2 and sing Into the Unknown.

Nathan: Now I'm in. Now we're talking my language. I got a couple of kids, I'll bring them out of school right now to check that out. That's great. Oh, I love that. Okay. We are over time a little bit. However, um, give us a pitch one more time. Where can people find you? I will obviously leave your website in the show notes, but where can people find you on LinkedIn?

Where can they find you on the internet? Um, swords.ai, but tell me just about the website, your services, uh, a 60 minute, uh, 60 minute, 60 second wrap-up pitch

Brian: 60 second, you, you're, y-y-you qualify that properly. I, I, I need that guidance. Um, yeah, so it's just like [00:34:00] Tords, but with an S. S-O-W-A-R-D-S.ai. You can find me on LinkedIn as well. And, um, the pitch is, I wanna, I wanna help you build your personal Jarvis to make you a really successful leader. I wanna, I wanna encourage you that navigating the unknown and building your context and figuring it out is what you need AI for. I see a lot of people trying to figure it out first and then bring AI in. when you're buying a tool, that makes sense. When it comes to your own personal performance, start now. Start using AI agents and these tools right now, and I'm happy to help

Nathan: And one thing from your website I wanna make clear what I really loved is a lot of the solutions that you build, the person owns. It's not like you're building it, that you-- Yeah. So you're not building it and you're in charge of the GitHub repos. You're, you're building this and it becomes like a proprietary AI tool that the person walks away owning.

That is

Brian: a personal proprietary [00:35:00] AI tech stack. Yeah

Nathan: That's really cool. Okay. And I haven't seen a lot of that out there right now 'cause everyone's trying to make a buck on their own SaaS products. That's really cool. I love that.

Uh

Brian: I, I've accepted that you give the code away, man.

Nathan: I love it. That's great. All right. Well, go get your-- Go get, go get your code from Brian. Uh, thank you so much for chatting with me. I know, uh, like I said, this is arguably episode two, so I'm still a young buck trying to, uh, in terms of podcasting, so I appreciate you taking the time. I really do

Brian: I, I think you're doing a, a great thing for the community, Nathan. You've been early in this space. You have so much real world insight to offer about what it's like to actually do this stuff, and I'm so appreciative that you've given me a chance to tell my story.

Nathan: Oh, you're making a grown man blush. I'm gonna edit this part out 'cause I'm getting embarrassed. Thank you so much. Thanks, Brian. Here we go [00:36:00]

Barely Shipping

New episode every week. No fluff, by policy.

Short, opinionated episodes on building lean GTM systems with AI. Get each one plus the written version in your inbox.